Its the wrong place for them and they ought to go out and look for a better fitnot quotes from the letter, but a general impression I have retained from reading that Mailbag article a few years ago. Wake me up, wake me up inside I cant wake up,Wake me up inside, save me,Call my name and save me from the dark, wake me upBid my blood to run, I cant wake upBefore I come undone, save meSave me from the nothing Ive become As I wrote last night, the trend over the last 20 years (and especially the last 10 years) has been consolidation of power around Mohler and Mohler loyalists with the only doctrinal essentials being Authoritarianism (meaning loyalty to whatever they say) and Complementarianism. one head person to be the primary teacher and CEO of a fellowship, big or small, to whom all, if push comes to shove, must ultimately submit. Why if Aunt Tilly is sick we think the head shamans prayers are needed more than our next door neighbor sister or brother in Christs prayers? Who wants a job where you give everything, then the mob can take a vote as to whether you keep your job or not! The gifts of the Holy Spirit are exercised in a corporate setting. Having been in SBC churches for 20 years, I can honestly say that most megachurch sermons are shallow and quite devoid of teaching of Scripture. I also think its something all Christians should aspire toward, though I do believe all Christians are equal priests in a priesthood lead by Jesus. That kind of New Testament model? Its probably part of his Radical mantra live and give until you are no longer sane and totally burn out. On more than one occasion he preached a sermon almost word for word from one of Tom Wrights books. WebApril 2004. I think the title of pastor has lost its meaning. Most bakeries by this time will start feeling the cash flow pinch. The impact on the muslim world is accomplished very slowly through sincere friendships made through contacts by normal working people. Must be a slow reading inefficient thinker. I dont know much about them beyond that once TAG disbanded I lost contact but a friend of mine did attend CJs church and said he was a Calvinist. Thanks for the man/human explanation. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ5R08xDC6c Thats interesting. What never ceases to amaze me is that many who know that do not care as long as they get to participate in the fantasy! So we rarely, if ever, get to hear about them. I very much agree that many Christians do this quite well without drawing attention to themselves do you mean positional recognition? I dont believe there is invested (maybe you meant vested?) Im tired and normally pastor shenanigans give me a chuckle, but reading about these clowns just irks me tonight. Do you think Platt is making a permanent transition here? The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching (5:17). Ones talents, skills, personality are all part of that, and you do not have to suddenly come out of your introvert cocoon to become an extrovert Pied Piper. Web9. Mahaney.) It is true that to have a pastoral relationship, the congregation or ratio needs to be 150:1. Is it common for Calvinist pastors to preach almost word for word Piper / MacArthurs sermons on the same exact texts? I was shocked when I saw a Facebook post about MBC being affiliated with the Southern Baptists. A Proverbial Shortcut To Mushrooms, Perhaps?, I think we should get off the road (1), Lon knows quite clearly that the people of McLean Bible Church dont throw stones, Spy They must have gone in in laparoscopically. the title teaching pastor means they do not have to interact with the peasant pew sitters. to be more specific, they said that their insurer advised them that if they were to let anyone use their facility other than another non-profit, it could jeopardize their tax-exempt status. Pardon me while go rip off another sheet of tin foil! The organizers can gain favor with the Gospel Glitterati by inviting them to the conference? Have you seen what their next conference is going to be? InDavid Platt to Be a Teaching PastorIs it a Bridge Too Far for the IMB President? The mission of God, if I may use that term, is the salvation of the world, not just the salvation of me and mine. IMO Platt is an unethical showman, plain and simple. Thanks, very insightful from your experience with boots on the ground. David Platts mission, whether he realizes it or not, is to make MBC a social justice church. Theres even a well known chicken barbecue company. We have a property tax exemption for people over a certain age for that reason, and it isnt allowed to be increased more than 5% a year. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new (2 Corinthians 5:17). What I find today, is the Church Growth Leaders have confused worship with mission. His book is biblically sound and his church is experiencing major changes, but its an existing Southern Baptist church. That is the reason for the revisiting language, I think. I will be very interested to see how long this lasts. For the life of me Ive never understood, either, why we think we need someone to hold our hands when someone dies besides the Body of Christ. Find a pastor who will do your funeral and not punt it to the third tier pastoral staff. No longer do we judge anyone who looks as haggled as we do, thinking they are just too lazy to even get properly dressed. I believe they will be held accountable. Paul talks about the fellowship of His sufferings. I try to use gender inclusive language, but I dont bend over backwards. But seeing it in the best light, the person to whom you spoke was just ignorant and ill-informed, not malicious. I bet Mac Brunson is now going to become on of the Calvinistas. However, other fans, find Jimmys voice to be his hallmark trait. The fact that he was preaching was all that mattered! Faith is a response to Gods Self-revelation. Hes only been at the IMB for 3 years I didnt know it could be a part-time job. It has been assigned to any imaginable paid position in an institutional church. I have written about when he took his Secret Church show on the road to an undisclosed location in the Middle East where a person could lose his life for being a Christian. The event was supposedly being simulcast live to the USA it wasnt. @ Todd Wilhelm: Or do you mean the Mega New Testament Church model, in which the large full-time staff are comfortably paid wages from the offering baskets of the local believers (believers that they must manage) especially the ones who are sharing leadership with them on a non-paid basis, fitting it around the hours they work to earn money to live. This is made up of churches that left the Churchn of Scotland over homosexual ordination/ marriage etc and other churches that either are or became independent within the Gospel Partnership group. Suffice to say, God desires a cleaned-up people group, where He can dwell in their midst. What does any of this have to do with God? @ Preacherskid: C H Spurgeon : The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach today, or else be false to my conscience and my God., C H Spurgeon : There is no soul living who holds more firmly to the doctrines of grace (ed. I believe this is the main reason why people desire to be where everyone knows their name, as in the tagline from the old show Cheers. I hope this clarifies why the preaching of the Word is central. The Forgotten Mandate: Feed My Sheep or Putting Bread on the Table. I spend 7-10 hours studying Gods word and I am not preparing a sermon. The other day on a Facebook page that I like, the post was a political one. Now I dont know what to do. Would David have shirttails untucked or wear a polo shirt if he was marrying someones child? This has led to speculation that he wears a hearing aid and has speech problems. He recognized this and lived his life and ministry appropriately. Yes, but Platt played the deep sense of calling (from God) card which translated into plain English means I have a better job offer and this is your notice. They cannot fire him and they cannot say God did not call him, either because Unspiritual. And once fully addicted to the mind-blowing joy of preaching to a captive audience, who on earth wants to grub around in the tedious undergrowth of mundane serving of others? why are we surprised when we attract to that position those who are nothing more than entrepreneurial CEOs, vapid, idiotic motivational speakers, and little kings and God-haters who demand submission? CJ Mahaney and Larry Thomsak (both names probably spelled incorrectly) were very instrumental in my early Christian growth with the TAG meetings in D.C. Really loved those meetings. There is no excuse for the lack of shepherding, love, and caring that we are seeing in the modern church. Just being a preacher doesnt make you a pastor. Whats going on? Voice disorder. Our main motivation is Who God is, and that informs us as to how to love one another (because He first loved us). Oh yeah-thats the guy who shows us how not to be crazy busy-now *pastor* of a lg church and seminary professor. Dont get me wrongI believe the Bible clearly gives the church a fair amount of temporal authority and does enjoin us to provide for folks temporal needs, be they material or emotional or whatever. 12, 1 Cor. But I know I cant do that forever. Mike Wittmer : LZ Granderson, a member of Rob Bells church and a regular contributor to CNN and ESPN, wrote a column today for CNN.com which illustrates the problem that I try to correct in the first two chapters of Pastor X called me by my names tonight when he handed me the bread. Personal study is critical, and if a pastor can get the flock to let their fingers do the walking, then he has done a great service. A church in my area was hosting some type of Coffee House service very late on Friday nights. As for the public gathering, God promises to be present where two or three are gathered. Of course, a lot of people in their church have no idea their pastor has somebody else write their sermons and they dont go elsewhere very often, so they wouldnt realize it. What about the way New Testament leaders and teachers apparently worked to provide their own physical sustenance, so they would not be burdensome on the believers, oh, say, tent-making, for example? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HPqDaKajSnQ In fact I sympathise with them to a certain extent, and perhaps I should do so to a greater extent insofar as they not unlike me. Anything bursting in there makes surgery, clean up, and recovery much more extensive. And then, in adulthood, we become the teachers, the feeders ourselves? I could add philosophy of ministry as well. but in the church gathered there is order of service (not chaos) and some invested authority (dont want to debate who and how much, just that it exists). I have a list of questions, maybe some information from the impacted group, a Reason for Outage, problem tickets and that sort of thing to work from, and I dont spend that much time. It would seem that Paul is drawing attention to those who perform their offices well. McLean Bible Church was obviously looking for a high profile name to be their teaching pastor. Platt, unfortunately, was merely a podcast in person. MBC used to meet at Langley High School before building a huge church building. The big boys all use research services to do the heavy lifting. Evidently the title lead pastor gives them street cred for moving up in the movement. and he doesnt commit to funerals and all flowers had to comply with their flower policy. Usually didnt pay or didnt pay much. Why are we so stupid? But I experienced him as my (now former) pastor and while he may be a great speaker, he is not a good pastor. No liberal lefty here, in fact, not really political at all. I greatly admire the health in Christ you so earnestly convey and demonstrate. unable to endure sound doctrine of bitter, the roughage of whole bran, the artisan heavy-bread with its uneven texture and low-glycemic index but a lasting satiety which sustains the hungry soul! Stomach full of staples for another week, but back to work with a few restrictions. @Richard- My family also attends (Soon to be attended) MBC and feel the exact opposite. Did I miss that anywhere in this thread? It is not a place where 1 man is in charge. I dont try to use gender inclusive language. Im all over the continuum insofar as views go. and for fun. With one exception: If I was a pastor, I can understand taking 20-25 hours for study and sermon preparation. And, while theyre about it, lay hands on and pray for them. WebSpeech impediment, or speech disorder, happens when your child cant speak or cant speak so people understand what theyre saying. About 3 minutes. One guy is not so indispensable and amazing that we need a video feed of him; it can be done by a real person in the location. Tell me want to do/believe, and I will do it, I do not want to figure it my self to much work and, 2. feeling tension over what is duplicitous, deceitful, self-promoting under the cover of God is a healthy response. Birds of a feather stick together, I guess that is why Platt has no problem appearing on the conference circuit with C.J. (Formerly pastored by Joshua Harris and C.J. It evolved; a culture developed around it; rules and regulations; holidays and celebrations; the yearly church calendar; working people could show up, pay up, and leave; eventually the CEO posted a job roster for the volunteers; duties and titles; gender roles; power and access became linked to donated money; book$ and conference$ and web$ite$ and broadcast$; celebrity and status; trips and missions and safaris; etc. But, I try to see every person who comes to me as a long lost brother or sister. See, I grew up in the remoter parts of the domestic oilfields. I know many folks like me at Mclean. We had not heard of David Platt before he came there, but we have already decided we will be moving on. Why would the love of God mean that we were created to merely be lap dogs good for nothing more than some sort of warm fuzzy feeling. Everything is for show to make the congregation think theres actual ministry going on. We are to go into all the world and BE witnesses. Im a firm believer in Capital Punishment. Its true that not everyone likes it, but many people do. The amount of cash these guys make for their seminaries & their megachurches Pastoral care fits, here. Yes- he is doing it for free. Ezekiel 34 describes, unfortunately, false shepherds. Those things cannot be torn apart and pitted against each other; they are part and parcel of the whole. The ecclesia, the called-out ones or faithful body of believers, is the Church separated unto the LORD. I do think ministry of the Word takes precedence over pastoral care. Thanks! I also have an active prayer closet and know how to use it. As all were replaced their titles changed with the word pastor not minister. The man boy who took over my former church immediately had his title changed to lead pastor. He clearly could not know everyone by name as our capacity as humanssociologically speakingtaps out at around 150 (if you look at the literature). @ AnonInNC: I dont disagree. God is interested in and respects what we think, our initiative, our ideas, our plans, our decisions Would be beneficial if more people pastored in like fashion. Theres very little Scripture in sermons. No pastor that is paid full-time could say that and be hired or kept on in a Baptist church. Then they purchased the Wildlife Federation building and mega-sized the already mega church. As many genders as people are claiming now there is no way to be inclusive much less to do so with any common sense at all. Also, there are close ties to the SBC since the NAMB (North American Mission Board)runs their church planting efforts out of McLean. Yeah, I know several families that were in Nepal in a similar sense, one family for 20 yrs or so, 6 days walk away from the nearest road, while the others did veterinary work in an area almost as rural. Im the face of my department to other groups within the enterprise and I walk a fine line between encouraging people to put all their cards on the table but then subsequently recommending steps these groups should take to keep their particular issue from occurring again. Actually, liberal lefty functions only as temporary place holder for me. My concordance doesnt include an entry for paid pastor. They just say they do. Why we continue to metaphorically want a father clergyperson when Jesus Himself said a resounding no to that model? Dee, I really like this post, as I used to work at St. Thomas, an Episcopal Church across the street from McLean Bible. Thats another contemporary trend so why not ape it in the church? This plague has even crossed the Atlantic and come to the UK. I think I now have the answer. I explain I can't do funerals, visits, phone calls, or meetings. IMHO Peter was doing evangelism, like Billy Graham, for example, and not pastoring. This should not be confused with ministry. Sadly, nothing. Hopefully I can soon find a way out. Of course, you can do some evangelism at the church site. Im familiar with the loophole, it is another one of those things that violates my classical liberal sensibilities as does the property tax exclusion that no other non-profit enjoys. I do think ministry of the Word takes precedence over pastoral care. To my knowledge neither Platt nor Furman have apologized for the scam they took part in. He has spent some of those weeks off preaching at Advance conferences. Celebrity pastors who are in it for the fame, money, or to deceptively change a church polity. If God is truly visible in our midst, we will not have to build bridges to the community; they will build them to us to get to God. Week in the hospital with IV antibiotics and drains (after a few days on NG tube and Foley no fun), then recuperating at home for a month on a restricted diet. I met him the first time his visited this spring and he has remembered me and called me by name ever since (something akin didnt do for the 12 years we have been there.) Prayer will lead the Church to Glorify God, Shouldnt we all be spending time with Christ, studying? They took me to a new level of understanding Gods Word. See how you feel then. Or mainly? Are you prepared to refute the lies of Cultural Marxism spewed by many of todays leading evangelical pastors and authors? David Platts mission, whether he realizes it or not, is to make MBC a social justice church. . the placid, smiley response is the wrong one. 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